Comments

Brian wrote on Sep 21, 2009 7:04 AM:

" Hi Ann,

You're welcome for the civil post. I always give what I get and you always post pleasantly!

I agree with you that affordable health care should be available to everyone who desires it. Perhaps we only differ on the methods to achieve this. I really believe government, except as a tool of oversight, should not be involved in what should be a free-market enterprise. As I have stated repeatedly, the government is rarely successful managing anything like this.

Health care is too important to push forth on blind faith. "




Ann wrote on Sep 20, 2009 7:56 PM:

" Brian, first of all, thank you for your civil post to mine. Sir, I was only talking about AFFORDABLE healthcare and insurance for all working citizens or otherwise. Nothing more, nothing less. "




Brian wrote on Sep 20, 2009 10:06 AM:

" Ann, it isn't the American people who have said, "Screw the poor". It seems we continue to poor billions into programs for the needy. Healthy Families here in California, migrant education, First 5, innumerable state and federal programs, etc.

Honestly, Ann, how much more can we pump into services and programs that don't seem to be helping anyone? The vast majority of programs today are money pits of theft and abuse. Don't you think we should fix the programs that are broken before investing in new ones? "




Brian wrote on Sep 20, 2009 10:01 AM:

" Hi Mac,

I'm so pleased that you are happy for me. I'm happy, too, because I worked very hard for a very long time to get what I have.

But to answer your question, "why can America not do what every other single industrialized democracy in the world do for their citizens?"

The answer, sir, lies with Barack Obama and his unyielding desire to spend America into oblivion. Do you feel, Mac, that the money spent on stimulus would have better been spent on health care? If so, speak out against Mr. Obama's policies. "




Mac wrote on Sep 20, 2009 7:43 AM:

" Yeah, the huge concern does not seem to be for the person without health care, but whether an individual might have to pay more taxes, or what the effect on their own coverage might be. We already ration care - it's rationed by who has money and who doesn't. Americans like that because apparently that speaks to one's work ethic/"worthiness". If you're poor and without you just need to work harder, then you, too can be worthy of good health care. "




To Ann wrote on Sep 19, 2009 7:46 PM:

" No need to apologize. It's the truth and has been for hundreds of years, from the Medicis and the Rothchilds. Nowadays the king-makers are on Wall Street, big Pharma and the Insurance cabal. "




Ann wrote on Sep 19, 2009 7:02 PM:

" Forgive me for saying this, but America has spoken. Scr*w the poor. The rich shall rule and have healthcare. But, they will fight the friggin system to ensure the poor and needy do not have viable alternatives by blocking the healthcare reform bill(s) and impregnating fear into the other monkeys who follow but do not rule. Seems clear to me what the bottom line here boils down to. The haves and the have nots. The wealthy and the middle-class, poor. What America has been about forever. God Bless America. "




Mac wrote on Sep 19, 2009 5:30 PM:

" A couple Europeans on a community I belong to commented that lots of people they know consider America to be a third world country as far as health care goes. Look at the hundreds, sometimes thousands of people who show up for basic care at health fairs. It's like when WHO shows up to give immunizations in Africa. In this country we are very comfortable with the idea of the rich having health care and the poor going without. That speaks volumes about our national character, doesn't it? "




Mac wrote on Sep 19, 2009 5:10 PM:

" I'm so happy for you, Brian, that you are happy with your private care. Now, pray that you don't get some expensive condition because they could very well look back in your records for a reason to dump you.

Is Medicare in trouble? Yeah, it's an expensive program. My question is, why can America not do what every other single industrialized democracy in the world do for their citizens? "




Consitutionalist wrote on Sep 19, 2009 11:56 AM:

" For Republicans who want a free market solution to our health care disaster, some just released facts by Consumer Watchdog, last six years in California.
Are you against police, fire people, pregnant women and their husbands?
Your political party is.

Some of the Automatic expulsions were:
Pregnant woman
Expectant father
Police person
Fire person
Migrant worker (American citizen)
Varicose veins
Toe fungus
Therapy counseling within 12 months
Symptoms within 12 months that a Doctor has not been consulted for.
Time to have a 3% of cost government program vs. 30% private. "




Brian wrote on Sep 17, 2009 9:02 PM:

" Constitutionalist,

I did pretty well from the fourth grade on. My spelling is clearly superior to yours, so I must have done something right.

Thanks for confirming the fact that Medicare is going broke. Our government's failure to properly administer the program is why it, Social Security, and any other government program you can think of is a failure. THAT is a fact.

Why entrust the government to handle health care for us all? Why, Mr. C?

By the way, I'm quite please with my private health care. FACT. "




Constituionalist wrote on Sep 17, 2009 7:44 PM:

" Brian,
What facts from whom? Medicare works great for me and my friends. Will it run out of money sometime in 2020's if not funded correctly? Yes.
But I don't hear you with a fact. Your answer of cut the crap would get you an "F" from the fourth gr4ade on. It has no substance. It is just your wish.
What is broken is private health care that denies one in five request from Doctors. Sarah Palins death squads have been operating in California for the last five years.
Answer that with facts. "




Brian wrote on Sep 16, 2009 8:04 PM:

" Constitutionalist,

Cut the crap and read exactly what I have posted. I have posted that Medicare is BROKE AND NOT WORKING PROPERLY. Like every government program out there, there is bloat and waste. You deny that? That isn't my opinion, pal, that's cold, hard facts. Wake up.

Now, cite the source for your numbers. Give me a link that doesn't point to some ignorant left-wing blog or Wikipedia.

If you're going to challenge me, do it with substance and spare us all your ridiculous grandstanding. "




Consitutionalist wrote on Sep 16, 2009 4:50 PM:

" Brian, you never state facts, just general opinions. So why not tell us how Medicare is more expensive than private health care?
Facts for you: Medicare cost 3% to manage, private insurance 20-30%. Private insurance approves higher costs for the same procedures.
The top 6 private insurance, 80% of privately insured Californians have had 22 % of all claims in the last five years denied. So the death squads are already here--in your version of a good idea.
You have failed to answer these facts about three times. Please stop posting if you can't. "




Brian wrote on Sep 10, 2009 6:02 PM:

" As the debate here wanes with little to no response to some points raised on both sides, I would like to follow up with one point on the issue - and I would love a response from a proponent of Obamacare.

Please tell me precisely WHY we must ram a public option down the throats of Americans. Explain to me why I should trust a government to initiate a massively expensive plan when Medicare and Social Security are, themselves, on life support. Who in their right mind actually trusts the government with yet another overblow, expensive program? "




Bryce wrote on Sep 9, 2009 3:02 PM:

" Without entering this debate, I had to comment on the post perpetuating the urban legend of Bush Jr holding the children's book upside down. That photo was digitally edited from an AP photo and circulated on the internet, as anyone who bothers to check out these urban legends on websites such as Snopes.com would know. Ditto for the presidential IQ list that went around, it was a hoax that was taken seriously. "




Brian wrote on Sep 8, 2009 1:55 PM:

" Hi Gary,

With reference to your cited facts, I'll have to respectfully balk at accepting anything at Wikipedia has hard fact. Granted, it may be unfair of me to do that without even looking at the link, but Wikipedia isn't exactly know as the world-authority reference.

As for your recent comments about Obama's "clear mandate", guess again on that one. Polls obviously suggest the public doesn't agree with you on this one. And we'll see how certain you are of this after next year's mid-terms. "




Gary Amstutz wrote on Sep 7, 2009 8:10 PM:

" Obama ran on a platform of Health Care Reform with a strong public option. Health care reform was listed as the number one issue of concern by Democrats during and after the election followed closely by ending the wars, green economy, energy independence, renewable energy, and education. Americans voted in a Democratic president, a Democratic majority in the Senate, and a Democratic majority in the house. The elections are over and America has spoken. Obama has a clear mandate to fulfill his campaign promises without any requirement for a bipartisan agreement. "




Gail Korner wrote on Sep 7, 2009 2:04 PM:

" The book held upside down by our president while the events of 911 were unfolding was one of the reinforcements I needed to confirm my Libertarianism. It was disappointing how he handled those tragic events and subsequent war. I don't think much of Obama but do feel he has good intentions on bringing about much needed healthcare reform. Bipartisanship is needed now more than ever. We also need a viable third party that can be taken seriously and demand accountability. There is too much infighting between the two parties. "




celia wrote on Sep 7, 2009 9:21 AM:

" Hey Bob!
Some suggestions:"A-Woman" or "You go girl"...and Thanks will do. Thanks to you too.You are good at remembering facts, laws etc.

I think I have the other issue figured out too. You see, a white male of low IQ reading a child's book upside down is not a threat. But get a smart black guy talking to kids about hard work, and OMG it's communism....Wow, I think I was channeling our old friends "truth" and company. I kind of miss them...eh I'll get over it. "




Gary Amstutz wrote on Sep 6, 2009 8:41 PM:

" Hello Brian, Please go to Wikipedia.org and search for “Health care system”, then drop down to Cross-country comparisons. The chart there shows life expectancy in “years”, Infant mortality is expressed as a “rate” (of infants that die per 1000 births), per capita expenditure on health in dollars (means per person), health care costs as a “percent” of GDP, “percent” of government revenue spent on health, and “percent” of health costs paid by government. "




Bob Walker wrote on Sep 5, 2009 4:12 PM:

" Celia,
I tried to say "Amen" to your post, but the word stuck in my throat.
So instead. Thanks!
By the way, the obese guy who was handing out "Obama is a N**i because he wants to talk to school kids" at Vons yesterday, is the same guy involved in the Rep float. Size 65 inch waist easy.
Talk about why we have a health care problem! I asked him what Dubba was doing on 9/11 and he refused to talk to me anymore.
What size dress is a 65" waist anyway? "




celia wrote on Sep 4, 2009 5:15 PM:

" Oh goody! Hey am I BOTH liberal AND Gay? I sure did luck out this lifetime! Thank you for the compliment! We'll miss you "truth" but I'm sure, as Mac said, we'll read you in some other form.And I'm sorry your'e sick to death.I'll pray for you....and all the others too."truth" you have been a true, blue represtation of the fringe. You should get an award or something..really...all of you...Thanks again for the comedic material! "




Mac wrote on Sep 4, 2009 1:02 PM:

" And there goes another incarnation of "Wise Counselor". To be soon replaced by....? "




The Truth....... wrote on Sep 3, 2009 11:22 PM:

" Ann: You don't have to worry about "trying to vote fit and fiddle" off this blog site...I am sick to death of all you people and the abuse you all give, while calling yourself tolerant, you sling mud and call others intolerant! All you liberals all gang together to knock off the debate....so here you are, it's all yours, now you can debate yourselves!
I am going somewhere else to debate real intelligent people, not just liberals and gays. Goodbye. "




Ann wrote on Sep 3, 2009 9:18 PM:

" On America's Got Talent, there were a group of good-looking gals who were good violinists. They got voted off, though. Perhaps the originator of the "fit and fiddle" should be also. Just a thought. I love that show. BUZZER. "




Bob Walker wrote on Sep 3, 2009 8:08 PM:

" I thought Chad did a good job of explaining his view. He was lucid, knew what he wanted to say, and said it in an informative and non-agressive way.
. He was honest and straight forward. So much so, I gave him my card and invited him to give me a call to see what we could agree on. The offer is still very much open.
This debate has gotten coverage all over Southern California as the only "decent" debate. Chad was as big a part of that as anyone. "




channeling God wrote on Sep 3, 2009 12:44 PM:

" Re: "health care bill for the fit & fiddle"----I kind of like the idea of fit violins---- "




Mac wrote on Sep 3, 2009 12:15 PM:

" Okay, Truth, the President of the Republican Club of KRV is not a fair representative of the Republican Party? What, doesn't he foam at the mouth enough for you? "




The Truth........ wrote on Sep 2, 2009 11:27 PM:

" Bob Walker: Chad Whiteley, the President of the Republican Club of KRV went to the debate as a result of the moderator attending the previous meeting of the club, pleading for opposite thinking so there could be somewhat of a debate. Mr. Whiteley is not a fair representative of the Republican Party and he only represents his own opinion. His wife used to work for Dr. Robert Gross.....you, who cannot even understand the bill, and/or thinks there is no bill, certainly are not an authority! "




Bob Walker wrote on Sep 2, 2009 6:02 PM:

" Truth, you are lost in space.
Using your logic, someone who's picture in the paper knows everything about the event they are pictured in?
Here is a hard fact that I do know. John Henry, the independent moderator of the debate, went to the Republican Party a few days to a week before the debate and invited them to come and have half the time. They came, and had half the time. That's what made it a model debate talked about around our state.
There were no precursors that you are parroting. "




Brian wrote on Sep 2, 2009 4:42 PM:

" Hi Gary,

I searched for that OECD report you spoke of and found it. A few points that I would like to discuss...

First, I'm not surprised we live shorter. Of all listed countries, our diets are the worst. We're among the most obese, too. But that isn't the healthcare industry's fault.

Additionally, I found no percentage adjustments to account for population. If it's there, please correct me. Our numbers are higher across the board because we have more people. "




Mac wrote on Sep 2, 2009 10:46 AM:

" 'Healthcare bill is for the fit and fiddle'???? Are you meaning to say that the proposed changes are only for healthy people and everyone else is on their own? Wow, that would be just like the system we have now, where for-profit insurance companies take care of the interests of their shareholders by dumping the unprofitable sick people.
Frankly, that rant was so incoherent I'm not sure what point you were trying to make. So my rebuttal may have been way off the mark, if so, sorry. " "




The Truth..... wrote on Sep 2, 2009 9:24 AM:

" Bob Walker: Have you not read the letter to the Editor in todays issue of the newspaper? The letter from Michelle describes why the "so called debate" was quiet and reserved" with only a few people in the audience making comments on the conservative side. It also describes her being told she must "ratify the healthcare bill" to be able to give her opinion at the "so called debate." Now since your photo was on the front page of that paper, I would think you would know all this, but obviously your "ego" only lets you hear certain things? "




Gary Amstutz wrote on Sep 2, 2009 7:29 AM:

" A Study conducted by the OECD showed that the people of Australia, Canada, France, Germany, Japan, and Sweeden, all live longer than people from the United States and the United States has a higher infant mortality rate. The health care system of the United States is also the most expensive and with the highest cost of medical malpractice insurance of any other country. The United States is the only country without universal health insurance coverage. "




Brian wrote on Sep 1, 2009 10:50 PM:

" Hi Mac,

I appreciate your concern for those without health insurance. I just think the public option is the wrong approach.

My concern is that the current approach by Democratic lawmakers has turned a majority of concerned citizens against any notion of well-intended reform.

Again, I advocate a closer examination of what is wrong with Medicare and Social Security, then look for appropriate fixes. When the shortcomings in those programs have been addressed, then the larger issue of health care for all Americans can be addressed. "




Elaine Fleeman wrote on Sep 1, 2009 10:15 PM:

" Wanting Reform:I agree that the current system is not perfect,but we have to be extremely careful as there can be unintended consequences otherwise.We ought to look into tort reform and allowing insurance companies to offer insurance across state lines to increase competition and allow more portablility of health insurance.Most people are happy with what they have, so it seems to me that a complete overhaul is not needed.Look at the problem areas first, don't throw out everything and try to start from scratch. "




Mac wrote on Sep 1, 2009 8:07 PM:

" I think HR 3200 is a place to start talking. Things can be added, or taken out, but both sides need to sit down in good faith and have a reasonable conversation. "




Bob Walker wrote on Sep 1, 2009 6:09 PM:

" Congratulations to all at the debate, and subsequent posts.
Our "small town" debate has made it to LA TV. Why? Because we are the only debate that they have seen that was civil, where various opinions could be expressed.
Good on everyone! How American of us-even if we disagree. (An American trait) "




Bob Walker wrote on Sep 1, 2009 5:49 PM:

" Brian, we agree on private companies some. I spent a quarter of a billion for private companies in America in my career. Apple, MSFT, Amazon etc are great examples of private industry.
Today’s New York Times, 9.1.09, has an article about Forest Industries, and how they spent millions bribing doctors to prescribe their patented psycho drug, instead of a cheap, and the same, generic.
They illegally paid Drs. to prescribe to kids. This is the norm, not the exception. This doesn't happen in France, with the #1 health care. It can't. We need that oversight. "




Bob Walker wrote on Sep 1, 2009 5:40 PM:

" Elaine, Agains thanks for bringing up things we can look at. Makes for a real debate, and respect.
I totally agree with you that Emanuel thinks and feels the way he does.
However, the gang of six is not listening to anyone except their major contributors, Big Pharma. This group of three Rs and three Ds are tasked with telling 300,000,000 of us what our health care is going to be. Senator Grassley the second largest taker of money from big Pharma, has jettsioned the "option" plan. No one speaks to them. "




wanting reform wrote on Sep 1, 2009 9:49 AM:

" I think you all believe that pro reform means pro 3200 and that is not the case. I do not think 3200 is a good bill, but do believe that with the right person writing the bill, an excellent reform plan can be achieved. "




Mac wrote on Aug 31, 2009 11:52 PM:

" Brian, it's evident that you are pleased with your own insurance. That's great for you. Blue Cross worked out for your dad too. What about the people who can't get Blue Cross, or any other insurance? You know, the ones with pre-existing conditions, the ones who aren't very profitable? It isn't true that "everybody gets health care". What everybody is entitled to is emergency care. And if a patient had regular health care, they might not get to that emergent(and more expensive)state. "




Elaine Fleeman wrote on Aug 31, 2009 9:13 PM:

" Mac: I HAVE read the original Lancet article.The KVS won't let me post the link to it.This is not fabrication.Bob Walker- Dr. Emanuel happens to be a health poicy adviser at the Office of Management and Budget as well as a memeber of the Federal Council on Comparative Effectiveness Reasearch, as well as being the brother of Obama's chief-of-staff;his voice will carry a lot of weight.Go to Factcheck.org and search for Ezekiel Emanuel and read the PDF titled "Principles for Allocation of Scarce Medical Interventions" to see the original article. And Medicare is scheduled to be broke in 8years. "




Bob Walker wrote on Aug 31, 2009 8:37 PM:

" Brian,
The ER help woould have been the same under medicare. Every facility takes it as they do the Blue Cross.
You keep looking at yourself. Under private care, 50,000 million Americans have NO insurance. How good can that be?
EVERY insurance company, including two Blue Cross policies I had, excluded my left knee from coverage since I was 17. You policy will exclude soemthing, especially if you really need to use it. (Cancer, and other big ticket items. I've had over twenty private insurance policies during my working years. None were better than medicare. "




Elaine Fleeman wrote on Aug 31, 2009 3:10 PM:

" I read the Lancet article that Betsy McCaughey quoted in the Wall Street Journal.Dr. Emanuel and his co-authors clearly advocate the "complete life system", which would allocate health care in part based on age, society's investment in the person and their utility to society. I'd post a link but KVS won't let me. By the way, it was extremely derisive and unprofessional for Cathy Perfect to call Michelle Sandowich "finge element", especially since the majority of Kern County is against H.R. 3200.I guess if anyone disagrees with the liberals their best answer is name calling. "




Temecula wrote on Aug 31, 2009 12:31 PM:

" What is preventing us from moving forward? All the dramatic town hall meetings, fighting, controversy, one sided editorials and documents-has this accomplished anything other than making people more upset or left asking more questions? What we need to see, hear, read is the truth, the actual bill, and go from there. We do not need all this hearsay and propaganda it is just turning us against each other and further away from accomplishing anything. Truthfully I am surprised at how many (certainly not all) people are just acting on emotions alone. "




Temecula wrote on Aug 31, 2009 12:30 PM:

" First I would like to applause everyone who is seeing this issue as bipartisan. I believe that is where everyone needs to start, looking at the issue without party affiliation. People need to stop blaming the “other side, beliefs, SES…” this is a very sensitive issue on all levels, but we need to work together for this issue-not against each other. I believe that something needs to be done, but I believe what has been offered, is not “it.” "




Brian wrote on Aug 31, 2009 7:15 AM:

" Bob,

Now to answer your question as to what private health care does right.

Choice. Quality. Trust me, it wasn't the Medicare that got my dad whisked through the ER and taken care of Friday night, but the Blue Cross.

Insurance is not created equal. I previously had United Healthcare and it was just okay. My current Blue Cross plan is excellent.

Again, cite for me a big government social program that runs well and isn't messed up. When has government ever successfully managed something like this? "




Brian wrote on Aug 31, 2009 7:10 AM:

" Bob,

I also asked that a big social government program be named that wasn't broke (by broke, I meant not working well, but lack of funds applies, too).

My dad's covered by Medicare as primary, my mom's insurance as a secondary. He benefits from Medicare coverage. You cannot pull the rug out from under seniors who now rely on this (sometimes inadequate) program for their sole medical coverage.

That's why so many of us don't want a nationalized version of this. We'll be stuck with it forever. There are better options, Bob. "




Bob Walker wrote on Aug 30, 2009 7:42 PM:

" Brian asked to name one Government program that runs cheaply and better than private industry.
Medicare. Costs to administer 2-3%, private industry 20-30%
Cost of procedures covered-much less on Medicare than private industry.
Problems in we humans beings-all covered by Medicare, many "turned down" by private insurance.
What does private health care do right?
If you were buying a car, and had a back problem, and needed a car you get into and out of easily and the dealer refused to let you have that one because of your bad back, would you shop there? "




Bob Walker wrote on Aug 30, 2009 7:33 PM:

" Chairman of the Republican Party from LA Times.
Even as he vowed to "protect Medicare," Steele denounced it as a "single-payer program" and "a very good example of what we should not have happen with all our healthcare."
This isn't merely demagoguery; it's incoherent demagoguery. After several days of bad reviews, Steele backpedaled and said that he might not oppose all cuts in Medicare spending -- only the ones Democrats have proposed. But he refused to say what changes he would support to stop costs from spiraling out of control. "




Bob Walker wrote on Aug 30, 2009 7:32 PM:

" Brian,
Switzerland, which has much better health care than we do, got rid of for profit insurance companies in the 1990's for the same reason they don't work here.
They were more intersted in profit than health care.
Again, the private option costs around 20% or more, the government ones (both VA and Medicare 2-3 %) That isn't even in the ballpark.
Plus, the Va and Medicare do not refuse service and they cap prices to something reasonable.
That's exactly what you suggest "business" would do if allowed. The are allowed and don't do it. "




Brian wrote on Aug 30, 2009 9:58 AM:

" Mac and Wanting Reform, thanks for the enjoyable debate.

I think we need to see IF Medicare can be fixed before applying that style of care to the nation. What's the rush? For a majority of Americans, the system is working for them. Why upset the apple cart? Fix Medicare and Social Security before initiating another big government program.

Competition in free-market is the answer to corporate bottom-line concerns. Perform better, run cheaper and more efficiently, get preferences with contracts, etc. This can be attacked from a different angle and be successful. "




Mac wrote on Aug 29, 2009 9:39 PM:

" I'm glad your dad had a good experience at Memorial, Brian. I'm sure he has decent insurance as well, maybe Medicare? If he didn't, surgery and chemo for his cancer might have been problematic. A lot of people in your dad's position have what they think is good insurance, but end up filing for bankruptcy. I think an insurance paying 80% of "usual and customary" is pretty standard. For a serious illness (ICU stay?), $100,000 and above wouldn't be unheard of. What would having to pay at least 20% of that do to your average person? "




Mac wrote on Aug 29, 2009 9:27 PM:

" Brian, you say, "competition in the free market is the answer". A financial journalist, Maggie Mahar, points out that by law, for-profit corporations have to put their shareholders' interests first. If that for-profit corporation happens to be a health insurance company, shareholder interest may be at odds with your own. What do you propose we do for people who have pre-existing conditions, or expensive illnesses or just plain aren't good for a company's bottom line? How do you propose we reduce the shameful number of medical bankruptcies that happen in this country? "




wanting reform wrote on Aug 29, 2009 3:01 PM:

" As for an American socialized program that runs perfect, I can not name one, it is a good point, all of our socialized programs could use some refining and fixing but that does not mean that they are all together bad and should not exist at all, can not wait to read more opinions, keep them coming! "




wanting reform wrote on Aug 29, 2009 2:45 PM:

" Brian, once again, medicare will not need fixing if we have socialized healsh care, why would any person need to have double coverage? As for social Security I have no argument, I agree, it does need to be fixed, but that is a complete different issue. If you did some research on your own and not on what the big companies feed you, you would find that Canada has a well working system up there. They are a little short on doctors due to their doctors wanting to come here because of greed, but they still receive care. "




Brian wrote on Aug 29, 2009 10:47 AM:

" Hi Wanting Reformm

Actually, I was at Memorial Hospital ER last night. My dad was being treated for severe abdominal cramps and dehydration following a chemo treatment.

He had a heart issue after his first chemo treatment and was rushed by ambulance to Memorial back in July. The care he received in both emergency and especially in ICU then was excellent. Caring and attentive GP.

The care is as good as the doctors and support staff. Not all staff are created equally, which is the true problem with the insurance industry. "




Brian wrote on Aug 29, 2009 7:48 AM:

" Actually, Bob, I'm blessed with a secure job in a secure organization. I don't pay a dime for my benefits - not yet, anyway.

Please cite for me a government social program that operates smoothly, efficiently, and on the cheap. Competition in a free market is the answer, as it always has been in America. Government intervention and regulation has always been a mark of failure and health care in America is the wrong thing to apply that miserable standard to.

Why not fix Medicare and Social Security FIRST? Nobody will answer that question. "




Mac wrote on Aug 29, 2009 12:40 AM:

" So, Truth, I take it you will be abstaining from Medicare and "taking care of yourself" then?

I have decent insurance and I have good health. I'm not worried about me. I do worry about people who have pre-existing conditions though. I worry about people who don't have great jobs that don't offer insurance, or people who lose their jobs in this economic climate. There are horror stories out there that simply don't happen in other countries and I think that is a complete shame. It's embarrassing that America can't do better than that. "




Mac wrote on Aug 29, 2009 12:34 AM:

" Elaine - please read what Ezekial Emanuel actually says, instead of Betsy McCaughey's wild-eyed interpretations and downright fabrications. Like the "death panel" lies, Mr. Emanuel's words have been deliberately twisted to put fear into people. These are the same kinds of people who said that Stephen Hawking would have died under the British NHS, when he has lived there his entire life and obviously isn't dead yet. Please do not be spoon-fed information from one source and believe everything they say. Billions in insurance company profits are at stake here; they are going to fight to keep them. "




wanting reform wrote on Aug 28, 2009 11:40 PM:

" Brian a direct debate would be great. I was wondering if you have been to Memorial hospital lately, its basically the same as KMC, KMC vs. Mercy S.W. or U.S.C. would've been a great comparison. I am not sure what you have been reading or how you perceive it, but all of your prior statements have been directly responded to. I am not surprised at all that you didn't have insurance for awhile, this is America, thank God that you didn't have a freak accident while uninsured, that could have been real bad? "




Wantig reform wrote on Aug 28, 2009 11:20 PM:

" to clear things up, I do want reform but also agree with the other side that the bill on the table now is scary and controlling and i do not agree with Ezekial emanual's system "




wanting reform wrote on Aug 28, 2009 11:17 PM:

" TO the truth- I provide myself with everything i need and never look for a hand out, and that does not change the fact that health care is overly priced. Comparing me to the people in New Orleans just shows how ignorant and arrogant you really are. Fact is, with thousands of dollars i pay alone it should me than enough to also pay for less fortunate children, retirees ect. but it isn't. "




Bob Walker wrote on Aug 28, 2009 9:17 PM:

" Brian,
Ask IBM retires, Gm retires, etc how much of their "excellent" plans they have left.
In about five years ask Kern County Employees what they have left. Their bennys went up 500% since 2000 and there is no money to pay them. Ditto California state employees. And, given the chance to vote on it, I will vote to cut their benefits down to mine-considering I pay theirs too.
And yours? What company do you work for? How good is their future? And yours? "




Bob Walker wrote on Aug 28, 2009 9:11 PM:

" Elaine. Thank you for using your name. How refreshing!
Reality is what Emanuel says to Obama doesn't mean squat.
Three Republicans, and three democrats, the gang of six Senators, are presently determining our lack of health care. No else is allowed in.
Free optional health care has been taken off the table by Republicans. Whether anything else different comes out remains to be seen.
36 other countries with better health care than ours would have taken care of your relatives problem, pretty much for free.
Sad isn't it,the right wing denies us health care. "




The truth....... wrote on Aug 28, 2009 3:16 PM:

" A lot of the comments here remind me of the people who were in New Orleans, they did nothing for themselves, just waited for someone and everyone to help them. They all had plenty of time, notice went unheeded, and some died. A lot of the comments here show that some just don't think it is their responsibility to take care of themselves and think for themselves ahead of time...they are the "lemmings" following the Obama promises and drinking the "kool-aide" of Obamacare! "




Elaine Fleeman wrote on Aug 28, 2009 3:06 PM:

" Some of the comments that Ezekiel Emmanuel has made are very frightneing to me. He has Obama's ear,being the brother of Obama's chief of staff,and blames "overuse" of medical care on the Hippocratic Oath and says that,"covering services to individuals who are irreversibly prevented from being or becoming participating citizens are not basic and should not be guranteed." If you are disabled or know someone who is, this is scary.My nephew was born prematurely and under Dr. Emmanuel's plan, he would have gotten limited health care and probably would have died. He is normal today. "




Mac wrote on Aug 28, 2009 12:40 PM:

" Brian, how many jobs with "excellent benefits" are out there? What about people who lose their jobs, or like the employees of SK Tools, have the rug pulled out from under them? There are also so many people with pre-existing conditions, or who get sick and too expensive to suit the insurance companies. It's not all a matter of personal choice or responsibility. The insurance companies are there to make money, not take care of sick people. "




Bob Walker wrote on Aug 28, 2009 11:47 AM:

" The Economist.com just published the taxes paid by citizens in various countries on a $100,000 income, and is surely debunks the myth that those countries have high taxes compared to us.
France, 15% income tax plus 21 % social security=36% total. No co-pay or insurance costs or out of pocket for life.
Germany is a total of 37%, England a total of 33%.
The USA a total of 32% based on an 18% income tax and 8% Social Security payments. (How does $100,000 income get only 18% tax?) Then add property taxes health insurance and co-pay. "




Brian wrote on Aug 28, 2009 7:49 AM:

" It's a shame we only have a 100 word limit here. But I'll try to address both Wanting Reform and Mac.

It may surprise you both that I was without insurance for a year while changing jobs. I chose not to get COBRA because of the expense. I sought a job with excellent benefits and got it. I don't work in health care. You guys assume too much and too often respond with unrelated points rather than directly addressing my previous statements. I would love to directly debate you, but it's difficult here. "




Mac wrote on Aug 27, 2009 11:04 PM:

" For the smug ones who think "good choices" makes one immune from insurance issues, I invite you to google "SK Tools". One day, without any warning, SK Tools canceled their employees' medical coverage. One woman found out when the pharmacy wanted $400 for her usual $48 prescription. One of the workers has a transplanted kidney and needs anti-rejection medication to stay alive. He's paid $1200 out of pocket so far. You have people who are diabetic, and what about things like accidents? Some of these people have worked for this company for 30 years. Did they make bad choices? "




Mac wrote on Aug 27, 2009 10:49 PM:

" A lot of the people who don't see anything wrong with the system are the smug ones who think they made all the right choices and are thusly immune from things like medical bankruptcies and being dropped like hot potatoes by their insurance. Everybody else just made bad choices, is that why there is a healthcare problem? People are lazy, don't want to work, didn't plan ahead? Or could there possibly be something wrong with a system that doesn't have to insure anybody it doesn't want to, and can drop you if you get sick? "




Mac wrote on Aug 27, 2009 10:42 PM:

" Brian - you're missing the point. The irony is, the people who cry about "socialized medicine" are a lot of the same people who will gladly partake of medicare and at the same time "want the government out of their health care". And they don't even see their own ignorance. "




wanting reform wrote on Aug 27, 2009 10:31 PM:

" to brian- you are saddly mistaking when you say everyone who needs a procedure gets it, there are volunteers from 9/11 who still can't get the care they need. Yeah if you come in the E.R. in a mess they will see you, but that is a far cry from getting all the care needed, KMC provides top notch care but gets a bad rap because it is always swamped, give people the means to go and see a family practice DR. and it might free up some seats down there. "




wanting reform wrote on Aug 27, 2009 10:21 PM:

" reply to brian
It sounds to me like you work in health care, if you dont pay anything for care. This will probably affect you greatly. I am fine with paying for my care at a reasonable price. Yes I will end up paying the government for socialized health, but it will be far less than what i pay now. I dont have to pay for insurance either, but still have to pay co-pay and 10% of some bills and when you get a bill for four grand its no fun. "




Bob Walker wrote on Aug 27, 2009 10:03 PM:

" Brian, What makes you think everyone gets health care? I didn't for the ten years before going on medicare-and I'm healthy. 50 million Americans have NO health care. If they are clobbered in an auto accident they will get some treatment. But if the same person gets cancer, they will die for lack of treatment.
What about that don't you get?
You said you chose insurance smartly. Every French citizen chooses smartly at birth, and they have better health care than you do. 36 times better, @ 7% GNP instead of 17%. "




Elaine Fleeman wrote on Aug 27, 2009 9:56 PM:

" In today's (August 27,2009) Wall Street Journal is an article titled "Obama's Health Rationer-inChief". It speaks of White House Chief of Staff's brither, Dr. Ezekiel Emanuel, who has been very vocal for years about health care reform. A quote: "When implemented, the complete lives system (by which he wants to allocate health care) produces a priority curve on which individuals aged roughly 15 to 40 years get he most substanital chance, whereas the youngest and oldest people get chances that are attenuated." Elderly, infants and young children would get much less care under his plan. "




Brian wrote on Aug 27, 2009 6:48 PM:

" For Wanting Reform,

No, I don't think the health care system is broke. I think it works as well as the people who manage things. Everyone who needs a procedure or emergency care gets it - why do you think each and every year is a struggle for KMC. And, speaking to your other point, you CAN do the same with health care as schools... KMC versus Memorial - 'nuff said. I have the best insurance money can buy, too, and I don't pay a dime for it because I chose my job wisely. "




Bob Walker wrote on Aug 27, 2009 6:24 PM:

" Forget N..i Germany. The person who brought that up failed to mention modern Germany, which has great health care, rated much higher than ours, and government run, and cheaper per person despite a higher standard of living. So it is not an issue of government run.
36 government run health care counties have better care than we do.
Call the police in your home town, you get socialized police. When you send your kid to school, it's socialized. The VA is the biggest socialized medical plan in the world. It's the private Insurance companies. "




Brian wrote on Aug 27, 2009 1:12 PM:

" Two points, first for "wanting reform"... yes, the entities you speak of want our money. It's called "free market". The government wants our money, too, however I don't see you bothered by that. Why?

For "Mac"... I'm not holding my breath that Medicare will be there when I retire, nor am I counting on Social Security. The government has run those programs into the ground and they are not solvent long-term. Smart people make plans early. I can take care of myself, thank you. I don't need government managing my affairs. "




wanting reform wrote on Aug 27, 2009 1:10 PM:

" to brian, i am wondering if you believe that our health system as it now stands is not broke? I know that the school system is not perfect, but if you do not like the school system and have enough money you can go to private schools, why not do the same with health care? I now have one of the best health insurances available and it cost me an arm and a leg, and yet I still get denied coverage at their discretion. If we had a progam camparible to Canada's we woud not need medicare "




Mac wrote on Aug 27, 2009 10:12 AM:

" For all of you who are afraid of "socialized medicine" - I'm guessing you won't be partaking of Medicare when it comes your time? "




wanting reform wrote on Aug 27, 2009 10:05 AM:

" for those agaist a socialized health plan, i hope that you never fall victim to the health care system, where you get so sick with something that you can no longer afford to pay for your health care and end up losing everything you worked your whole life for, because that is what is happening to people all over america today, its not right, the doctors, pharmacies, and insurance companies are about one thing only, money, and they love people like you, people who fight for their cause "




Brian wrote on Aug 27, 2009 7:27 AM:

" For "Wanting Reform"...

I wouldn't hold up our "free" public schools as a shining example of a great "socialized" program. That comparison is as weak as Obama's example of the post office versus UPS or FedEx. Tell me, why reform the entirety of health care now? Why not fix some other government programs, like Medicare or Social Security first before diving in to something that has immediate and long-lasting impact on the country as a whole? And please cite for me a single government social program that runs properly and isn't broke. "




Mac wrote on Aug 26, 2009 10:51 PM:

" Bob, you may be talking about the Frontline interview that is on the PBS website - I posted it on another thread, but here it is again. pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/sickaroundtheworld/ "




Mac wrote on Aug 26, 2009 10:50 PM:

" I take offense at throwing of the term "N*zi" around so lightly. These people would pour sand down a child's throat until he died, toss babies out of windows in a contest to see who could impale them on the most spikes. It is disgusting the way that becomes trivialized by comparing it with health care reform. Can we please keep things in perspective people? And keep the terms "N*zi" and "Hitler" to something that actually compares? "




The Truth wrote on Aug 26, 2009 10:35 PM:

" Mischelle, consider yourself someone who knows the truth, and all of those organizers are on the same "Socialized Medicine page"...the reason no "experts on healthcare" were there, is that no one in this valley takes these people seriously, they are delusional, they show that here on this blog. The fact that Doc Gross showed up was good because the ones who voted for him in the last election did not know he backed Socialized Medicine, they do now! Don't worry about their tactics to make you look crazy, that is one of their diversional plays! They lose!!! "




wanting reform wrote on Aug 26, 2009 9:57 PM:

" I do not feal that this bill is the answer, but something needs to change. OPEN your eyes and your mind and look outside the box, this isn't a Republican or Democrat issue it is an American issue. People need to not let the rich politicians brain wash you. They are getting payed off big time by the big pharmacies to do just that! "




wanting reform wrote on Aug 26, 2009 9:52 PM:

" I dont know why everybody is writing about the article and not the issue at hand. If anyone gets a chance, watch the documentary named Sicko. The main concern i hear is that nobody wants socialized health care, But at the same time do not care about socialized schooling. You go to the school that is in your area and is free to every child, why not do the same with health care. Canada, Britain, and others have government ran health programs that are free to all and far exceed ours. "




Mischelle Sandowich wrote on Aug 26, 2009 7:16 PM:

" Concerning the "evilness of man" no one wants to admit these things. Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin, Lenin, etc. all considered themself good people - working (in their own eyes) towards the betterment of mankind.

P.S. I am a very good swimmer! "




Emily Carde wrote on Aug 26, 2009 7:06 PM:

" Concerning this article—it gives a bad name to the paper. By resorting to picking-on and name-calling, you're admitting that you can't disprove another's theory, but you can make fun of it. It's shameful, and just another way to make light of something you know could be true, but don't want to acknowledge. I believe this also happened with German people, during Hitler's Regime.
Think about what I'm saying. I'm just a 15-year-old girl, but I can see you're trying to put down anything against your own views. That idea goes against the very principles of newspapers. "




Bob Walker wrote on Aug 26, 2009 6:12 PM:

" The day after the debate, I heard a 28 minute interview with TR Reid going over his new book "Looking overseas for healing of America " It catalogues the responses he got from six very different country's health plans to fix his shoulder. There were a couple of simple accounting procedures that would save us at least 4% of the 17% of GNP we spend now on health care.
I also found ou the term "socialized medicine" was invented by a PR firm in 1947 by doctors to defeat President Truman's health bill. Figures. "




Bob Walker wrote on Aug 26, 2009 6:02 PM:

" First, Chad, it was good meeting you. I have thought about a few things you said and would like to get together to see what we can agree on in this issue and get those ideas to our elected officials as a truly bi-partisan statement from we the voters. Call me, I'll buy the first "sasspirilla".
Regarding the speaker talking about Nazis. That is what she did. She also said, "All men are Evil". Most of the conservatives in the audience thought she was in the deep end of the pool without water wings "




Mischelle Sandowich wrote on Aug 26, 2009 4:58 PM:

" Prior to this debate, I asked the organizers how much time I could have to share. Rather than receiving a time limit, I received a notice that I could only share in favor of a "single payer option." Alarmed, I questioned the legitimacy of the debate and was assured that I could share opposing views as well.

However, when I arrived there were no formally confirmed opponents. This left the audience (including myself) to become the experts. This did not allow for an honest articulate debate.

P.S. I'd love to do a weekly commentary – The Fringe "




Brian wrote on Aug 26, 2009 4:17 PM:

" Hi Cathy,

Thanks for the clarification. However, I am reading the piece online and it is placed under the "Top Stories" heading with other news stories, with a hyperlink beneath that says "More News", so I assumed when I read it this morning that I was reading a news article. Perhaps proper placement for "Commentary" would be under the "Opinion" section.

Also, I would hope to find an objectively written news article serving as a companion piece for the commentary. Does one appear in the print edition, or does this story only merit commentary? "




The Truth wrote on Aug 26, 2009 3:37 PM:

" Thank you, OBSERVER....it just shows the liberal agenda of some newspapers, perhaps someone will soon start "A TRUTH" newspaper! "




just-an-observer wrote on Aug 26, 2009 1:15 PM:

" You know I was there and recall a few things myself. If I recall right someone did mention to figure out what you are asking for before you ask for it and less time finding a way to stop spending on national defense or the next rise of Hitler. There where "fringe" views on both side please tell the hole store and not the one that fits your agenda. "




Editor wrote on Aug 26, 2009 10:45 AM:

" Guilty as charged! Working under the pressure of deadline I had a total brain f-a-r-t. The correct spelling is conundrum and will be corrected in the online edition. As we say, 'The Sun regrets the error' as do I.
I'm reminded of Phyllis Diller talking about the way she looked: 'There's no excuse, but there are a lot of reasons.'
Thanks for bringing it to my attention. "




Editor wrote on Aug 26, 2009 10:33 AM:

" Brian, The article is appropriately marked "COMMENTARY" and by definition contains opinion. The purpose of identifying a piece as commentary is to advise the reader that the piece contains the writer's point of view, rather than straight, objective reporting. "




To Cathy wrote on Aug 26, 2009 10:22 AM:

" "Conundrom?" This from the editor of the paper? "




Gary Amstutz wrote on Aug 26, 2009 8:37 AM:

" The people of Lake Isabella proved we can have an intelligent political discussion of opposing views without the shouting and sign waving we have seen elsewhere in the country. Hats off to the people of Lake Isabella! "




Brian wrote on Aug 26, 2009 7:23 AM:

" Cathy, your "brief synopsis" of the town hall was written in a fairly objective manner, except for this portion:

"Some speakers – more representative of the fringe elements, such as Mischelle Sandowich, played the “this will give the government the power to pull the plug on grandma” card..."

Cathy, why did you phrase it that way? As a reporter, it isn't your job to categorize a speaker or speculate on what "element" they represent. Shouldn't you just report on what was said? Do you agree you owe your readers and Ms. Sandowich an apology? "